Alarm going off every few days when I attempt to get into the car

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mrspeaker
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:54 am
Qashqai Model: Mk.1 Qashqai - J10 (2006–2013)

Post by mrspeaker »

Hi all, hopefully somebody has gone through a similar problem:
My 2008 Qashqai Visia seems to have the car alarm going off when I attempt to get into it every few days or so . I could have a week or two of grace, but then it just jumps back into alarm mode - the alarm stays on for at least 5 minutes.

I end up driving it around since I'm usually in the process of getting somewhere, and the alarm remains active for some time. My partner does the same and once got stopped by the police!

It started happening during the first lockdown when the battery died from lack of use (understandably) but since then I've changed the battery and I'm still facing the same result.

Things I've done:
- Replaced the car battery.
- Replaced the batteries on both key fobs.
- Tried using the key directly in the ignition and switched it off and on again.
- Taken it in to AN AUTHORISED NISSAN DEALERSHIP, who couldn't find a fault code and hence considered the matter resolved.

Any recommendations? I'm a little bit at a loss since even Nissan (or the apprentices that work there :-) can't seem to find a fault with it. I can't reproduce the issue on demand since sometimes it trips after a day or so, and sometimes it doesn't.

The Nissan dealership (apprentices :-) ) offered to change the sensor for an additional £300, but a) they couldn't guarantee that it would resolve the problem and b) I'd already spent £150 for them to look at the vehicle and send me a nice, high resolution video of someone saying something to the effect of "the alarm doesn't seem to be tripping. We can't reproduce the issue."

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calnorth
Posts: 2719
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:01 pm
Qashqai Model: Mk.2 Qashqai Facelift - J11b (2017–2021)

Post by calnorth »

Looking at the Diagnostics for the Security system shows the following. I'm not familiar with your car.

The car is generally in one of theses states:
DISARMED
PRE ARMED
ARMED
ALARM

The following occurs when the car is in the ARMED state

Condition of Activating The System
When the following condition is performed in armed phase, the system sounds the horns/siren and flashes the
head lamps for about 30 seconds.

• Hood or any door is opened.
• Ultra sonic sensor is triggered.
• Ignition switch goes ON with invalid transponder ID.

Does the horn, alarm siren and headlamps behave as above?

I might conclude from the above that your method of entry does not correctly DISARM the car on odd occasions. And you exceed the 30 sec alarming limit it seems. That might be a repeating error causing the continuing alarm. The internal ultra sonic sensors system could be a problem if it keeps detecting movement and alarm triggering. Apparently the two cabin sensors can be disabled and Nissan could have instructed you on that.

The alarm system is controlled by the Body Control Module (BCM) and to which there is no detailed info and likely would give the Nissan boys quite some headache.
Mk2 Qashqai Facelift - J11b (2017–and onward)
1.6 Dig-T N-Connecta
mrspeaker
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:54 am
Qashqai Model: Mk.1 Qashqai - J10 (2006–2013)

Post by mrspeaker »

Thanks for your response calnorth!

This particular 2008 Visia model has no key entry into the car, entry is only undertaken by proximity to the fob - I press a button on the car door handle while the fob is close by so I can open a door).

When the alarm activation occurs it happens instantly when I press the car door button to open the car (with the fob close by). So in answer to your question:
- The hood isn't open.
- A door hasn't yet been opened up, it's usually upon button press of car door handle.
- There's no specific door where it activates specifically.

Even if I leave the car and lock it again it will remain screaming away for 5+ minutes. One thing I haven't tried is lifting and dropping the hood - I doubt it will do anything but that's one thing I haven't tried.

As an aside (I presume this isn't relevant but thought I'd mention it anyway), we never leave the ignition twisted off all the way to the full lock position as that requires the physical key being extended out of the fob each time. It would take a fumble to extend the key out and insert it so we just leave it just out of the 'full lock' position. I presume this isn't a problem since the car can't be driven away without the fob being in the cabin anyway.

The Nissan people didn't mention anything about disabling cabin sensors. They only mentioned about replacing the 'alarm sensor' but couldn't guarantee it woudl change anything. Is this cabin sensor disablement something I could do or to get a local audio/alarm specialist to do? I ask this as I'm hesitant to go and pay Nissan service prices again for what appears to be substandard service.
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calnorth
Posts: 2719
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:01 pm
Qashqai Model: Mk.2 Qashqai Facelift - J11b (2017–2021)

Post by calnorth »

mrspeaker wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:19 pm Thanks for your response calnorth!

This particular 2008 Visia model has no key entry into the car, entry is only undertaken by proximity to the fob - I press a button on the car door handle while the fob is close by so I can open a door).

When the alarm activation occurs it happens instantly when I press the car door button to open the car (with the fob close by). So in answer to your question:
- The hood isn't open.
- A door hasn't yet been opened up, it's usually upon button press of car door handle.
- There's no specific door where it activates specifically.

Even if I leave the car and lock it again it will remain screaming away for 5+ minutes. One thing I haven't tried is lifting and dropping the hood - I doubt it will do anything but that's one thing I haven't tried.

As an aside (I presume this isn't relevant but thought I'd mention it anyway), we never leave the ignition twisted off all the way to the full lock position as that requires the physical key being extended out of the fob each time. It would take a fumble to extend the key out and insert it so we just leave it just out of the 'full lock' position. I presume this isn't a problem since the car can't be driven away without the fob being in the cabin anyway.

The Nissan people didn't mention anything about disabling cabin sensors. They only mentioned about replacing the 'alarm sensor' but couldn't guarantee it woudl change anything. Is this cabin sensor disablement something I could do or to get a local audio/alarm specialist to do? I ask this as I'm hesitant to go and pay Nissan service prices again for what appears to be substandard service.
...
The right key/fob should DISARM the Alarm system on activating any door opening. Yours appears to do that most of the time from what you say. I don't know anything about FULL lock and Nissan should advise on that.

That leaves an intermittent problem somewhere related to the inputs to the BCM or perhaps BCM itself. BCM is the source of driving the alarm/siren/headlamps as above.

There is a procedure in Diagnostics to disable the interior sensors (sonar) but no mention is made for enabling it again. It probably enables on next engine start as current cars. Its a nuisance but Nissan should advise.

The hood interlock (closed/open) switch has been a source of problems on this site. However, the act of correctly opening the door(s) should prevent such switches from triggering an alarm.

An Alarm sensor (singular) does not exist...its a system of switches/sonar and communications that enable BCM to decide/kick off an alarm under the "right conditions".

The question remains...why is DISARM a little "iffy"?
Mk2 Qashqai Facelift - J11b (2017–and onward)
1.6 Dig-T N-Connecta
mrspeaker
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:54 am
Qashqai Model: Mk.1 Qashqai - J10 (2006–2013)

Post by mrspeaker »

There is an update and for reasons of posterity I will post here:
I took the car to an alarm and audio specialist. He mentioned that an alarm fault code will only appear in the logs of the vehicle if the car is started within a maximum of 10 times since the alarm sounding. Thankfully this had happened only 3 car starts previously. From there he found it there was a NATS P1614 code, but he wasn't able to find any further info on it. He also couldn't find anything else in the alarm system itself that was a dead-giveaway for what the issue might be.
- He noticed damp on the sunroof panel from where I had it retracted for a few of the past winter months. He said the typical cause of these kinds of issues for this kind of vehicle age is damp doing a mess-up of the wiring, and this kind of problem is very expensive to diagnose.
- He also noticed the internal sensors weren't working correctly (which ties in with the suggested work the Nissan people were offering to do) but he was convinced this wouldn't resolve the problem I was experiencing.
- He noticed the hood sensor was operational but he didn't think it was this or the internal sensor that was tripping it.
- He also found it odd that my alarm sounds for a good 10 mins when it activates since when he was testing it out it only activated for 30 seconds.
- He pointed out I should be fully locking the ignition with the steering lock on as well, since locking it the way I had was not a fully shutdown of the system and that might cause problems.
All in all he suggested if the issue continues I can either go down the expensive route of a full rewiring and diagnostic check or just to rip out the alarm siren itself (which apparently even I could do).

I hope this helps anyone out there!
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calnorth
Posts: 2719
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:01 pm
Qashqai Model: Mk.2 Qashqai Facelift - J11b (2017–2021)

Post by calnorth »

Picture below answers the Security DTC P1614 I think. And to some extent requires the bespoke Nissan CONSULT tool for further diagnostics.

DTC B2190 might be with it?

It would appear to be an invalid Key ID which NATS would complain about. Thats a digitally encoded signal which should not be corrupted at all. If the Key verification was wrong then the steering etc won't release? Engine won't start. Comms between the NATS Antenna and BCM is interesting as regards Key verification and we know nothing about BCM really.

Not quite sure why "the wiring" was a dampness problem. Perhaps corrosion at some plug sockets ?

If there was a test to do I suggest it is a case of totally disarming NATS which might be a problem for the all doors LOCK/UNLOCK function. And the ECU may not like it? I'm not sure whether the CONSULT tool can totally disable NATS. Only Nissan knows.

.........

Scree29.png

Mk2 Qashqai Facelift - J11b (2017–and onward)
1.6 Dig-T N-Connecta
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