Stop / Start Not Available?

General Chat about the Mk1 QashQai
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MrSweetE90
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2021 12:46 am
Qashqai Model: Mk.1 Qashqai Facelift - J10b (2010–2013)

Post by MrSweetE90 » Sat May 14, 2022 12:11 am

Hi All,

So today I thought I would tackle the annoying Stop / Start system fault that flashes constantly. I read on Torque Pro that the glow plug on bank A had a fault so I got the multimeter out, found the bad plug, replaced it, cleared faults of voila! No more flashing error. I then came to a stop and the stop start kicked in showing the amount of emissions saved. But then second time around it kicked in but then displayed "Stop / Start Not Available" I mean this is worse than having "Stop / Start System Fault" because at least with the fault it would completely disable stop / Start, but now it seems that it will happily conk the engine out and decide I'm not available to restart the car haha.

So whats with the "Not Available" message?
2012 Qashqai 1.6 DCI TEKNA Plus

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calnorth
Posts: 2608
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Qashqai Model: Mk.2 Qashqai Facelift - J11b (2017–2021)

Post by calnorth » Sat May 14, 2022 7:55 am

That message is not shown in diagnostics. However, there are large lists of checks to perform under the heading of ENGINE CONTROLS SYSTEM SYMPTOMS and the specific symptom shown as HARD/NO START/RESTART not including an under charged Battery. And is engine type dependent.

The list of checks range from Fuel/Air/Ignition/Main Power Supply/ Engine Coolant Temp and crank angle....etc mechanical

I suspect the message arises from the ECU that awaits various sensors to settle and would enable the ECU to command restart when required. Other than that I cannot help really.
Mk2 Qashqai Facelift - J11b (2017–and onward)
1.6 Dig-T N-Connecta

MrSweetE90
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2021 12:46 am
Qashqai Model: Mk.1 Qashqai Facelift - J10b (2010–2013)

Post by MrSweetE90 » Sat May 14, 2022 4:46 pm

calnorth wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 7:55 am
That message is not shown in diagnostics. However, there are large lists of checks to perform under the heading of ENGINE CONTROLS SYSTEM SYMPTOMS and the specific symptom shown as HARD/NO START/RESTART not including an under charged Battery. And is engine type dependent.

The list of checks range from Fuel/Air/Ignition/Main Power Supply/ Engine Coolant Temp and crank angle....etc mechanical

I suspect the message arises from the ECU that awaits various sensors to settle and would enable the ECU to command restart when required. Other than that I cannot help really.
It's so strange because other than the AC not working (clutch pulley issue) there wasn't a single DTC stored after I replaced the glow plug. Today it worked once but then kicked in and almost immediately changed to not available.

And as we've spoke about before, Nissan, at least from my experience appears to be so much harder to diagnose than BMW. Its the reason I'm working hard to fix all the issues and then change to a BMW X5. I need to fix this issue, then the seat belt buckle wiring on the centre row passenger is snapped so I need to replace the buckle, then the dreaded front timing cover oil leak, then the sump and then the driveshaft seal. Only then can I truly offer a reliable Qashqai to somebody, it's a really nice car if I'm honest, I was just unfortunate to buy and need a good few things sorting, but slowly the issues are being fixed :lol:
2012 Qashqai 1.6 DCI TEKNA Plus

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calnorth
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Qashqai Model: Mk.2 Qashqai Facelift - J11b (2017–2021)

Post by calnorth » Sun May 15, 2022 11:23 am

Thoughts:

Stop/Start is disabled if the AC is running under normal operation. Perhaps you might get the A/C working right and try again. Its possible at present the A/C sensor is passing the wrong message to the ECU? And I'm not sure what might happen if that sensor is disconnected or faulty-ish?

Perhaps the logic is that Stop/Start is "not available" under the A/C running condition...its not a fault in other words. Likely why you don't get the warning of "System Fault" (whatever)

Essentially:
ECU determines the start signal status by the signals of engine speed and battery voltage. Thats just two sensors but maybe more in respect of auto start...like clutch and/or gear position.
Mk2 Qashqai Facelift - J11b (2017–and onward)
1.6 Dig-T N-Connecta

MrSweetE90
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2021 12:46 am
Qashqai Model: Mk.1 Qashqai Facelift - J10b (2010–2013)

Post by MrSweetE90 » Sun May 15, 2022 1:58 pm

calnorth wrote:
Sun May 15, 2022 11:23 am
Thoughts:

Stop/Start is disabled if the AC is running under normal operation. Perhaps you might get the A/C working right and try again. Its possible at present the A/C sensor is passing the wrong message to the ECU? And I'm not sure what might happen if that sensor is disconnected or faulty-ish?

Perhaps the logic is that Stop/Start is "not available" under the A/C running condition...its not a fault in other words. Likely why you don't get the warning of "System Fault" (whatever)

Essentially:
ECU determines the start signal status by the signals of engine speed and battery voltage. Thats just two sensors but maybe more in respect of auto start...like clutch and/or gear position.
That's a good though Calnorth, though let's say the AC clutch was working. When start stop has kicked in and then you press the AC button it would start the car back up so if anything I'd have expected the car to shut off but then start the engine on its own due to it thinking the AC is on?

I'm certainly open to the idea, but maybe this is linked to my newest issue of the Christmas tree dash light of errors, that being a power issue? I was curious if maybe the battery is knackered, the car enables stop start and then the battery sensor on the negative terminal tells the car there's not enough power and therefor unavailable. Though that really is a guess! Ive been monitoring voltages and both alternator and battery voltages appear perfectly normal, under cranking the OBD did go as low as 8.6v or so.

Screenshot_20220515-145649.png

2012 Qashqai 1.6 DCI TEKNA Plus

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calnorth
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Qashqai Model: Mk.2 Qashqai Facelift - J11b (2017–2021)

Post by calnorth » Mon May 16, 2022 8:48 am

I'm only familiar with the J11b behavior(s). I have insufficient tech info on J10...so I'm guessing. The symptom list I mentioned above does not include Battery problems.

Your power assertion is a good one..very relevant with J11b. However, battery inadequacy at the critical point of Stop/Start will raise the Stop/Start System fault (J11) on the dash. Not so "not available". Question - is "not available" the same as the Stop/Start Fault as per J11b? Confusing...yes

J11b Battery Management boosts power supply to maintain critical system electronics during engine crank since the starter motor load is almost a short circuit. Its termed DC to DC Converter. Not sure if J10 implements that. I cannot see the boost function in J10 diagnostics.

Also once the Start/Stop fail occurs its flagged in fault memory (OBD) and continually displays until fault fixed...J11b again.

Regarding the AC...I can't imagine the car starting when AC button is pressed? Needs Clutch in or Park selected. The ECU controls the AC in various ways and detail on that is poor. I was just thinking the related control logic might be confused....after the engine has stopped such that the ECU is not able to trigger a restart. Tracing the logic is difficult without a reliable diagram.
Mk2 Qashqai Facelift - J11b (2017–and onward)
1.6 Dig-T N-Connecta

MrSweetE90
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2021 12:46 am
Qashqai Model: Mk.1 Qashqai Facelift - J10b (2010–2013)

Post by MrSweetE90 » Fri May 20, 2022 4:14 pm

Thanks very much for the reply, I got the car back today from Nissan after the "Christmas Tree dashboard" thread I created. They removed and tested the Exhaust pressure sensor and found that to be faulty, don't get me wrong I would have assumed that was the issue as I'm aware that it can cause pretty much most of the faults, but the important symptom for me was the fading out of dash lights, the head light and side light symbols going on and off individually. Like the dash was dying..

Anyway going forward, I had a call from Nissan in the inspection phase prior to concluding the exhaust pressure sensor and the chap said they suspect an issue with the "glow plug relay" as well as other things such as the EGR. So maybe it would be worth while looking at that, but, just as you're thinking, why since replacing the glow plug have I gone from "Stop Start System Fault" with a glow plug fault stored, to "stop start not available" with no faults.. I don't understand.

Though something happened today and I'm not sure if it was coincidence or not. But, when I removed my seat belt I'm sure it went from the normal "you're saving x amount of c02" to "stop start not available" when I removed my seat belt.. That then made me wonder if the faulty centre row seat buckle wiring being snapped may contribute to the issue. I'll have a mess around but I honestly feel that while the exhaust pressure sensor was faulty, the fading of the dash lights and stop start may all be down to a failing battery. The battery has dates which can be marked to note the install date and it's starting as early as 2016 but max is 2017 I think meaning it's what.. 6+ years old. I'd love to drop my mahoosive bmw battery in to see if it works perfectly but there's literally no physical way it can fit in :/
2012 Qashqai 1.6 DCI TEKNA Plus

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